Crazy Dealership Stories - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 03/10/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

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Does the headline mean the stories are crazy or that the dealerships are crazy? The phrase is amphibolous on purpose. I think “all of the above,” but you can be the judge of that - after you go look up amphibolous .

I’ve been handling lemon law cases for 24 years and I get all kinds of phone calls from people who have problems with car dealers as well. Sometimes the problems are run of the mill - like a car being damaged while in for repair or a dealer lying about some thing or another.

On the other hand, I’ve gotten calls from people who were told they: had won a free car; or, could have a Jeep Grand Cherokee for $100 a month lease. Psyche! Of course you don’t get those things. Or, how about vehicles which were essentially undrivable when sold as new? In these instances, the culprit was always the dealer - not the manufacturer.

So, both the dealerships and the stories are crazy. But does that really matter at this point? Here’s the audio:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

And the video:

The pic at the top is just another roadside find; I’m sure it ran when parked (before it sank).

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 24 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

jimz > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:03

5

(*^_^*)

thanks for the “Scary Mary” story. My only encounter with her was jury selection for a criminal case. I didn’t get as far as being called for voir dire, but I remember one guy who did. was called up to the box, and Judge started off with the standard questions; “Do you know or are you familiar with the defendant, the attorneys present, or any witnesses in this case?”

“Yes, your honor, all of them.”

“How is that possible?”

“The defendant is my ex-son-in-law.”

“You are excused.”

move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:06

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Why you gotta talk about salamanders like that?

Jdrentarol > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:09

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http://jdrentarol3.kinja.com/im-shaving-my-…

$750 from Dealership staff to shave my head. Should I do it? I think I should.

marshknute > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:12

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Amphibolous:

: capable of two meanings; specifically : manifesting amphibology

ThatbastardKurtis > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:12

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I wonder if that 57 (?) Oldsmobile in the top pick had the J-2 Golden Rocket engine with the 3 deuces?

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:15

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Well, those car dealerships are correct, I won’t come in for the keys.(ETA: Also, I hated the dealership that kept sending them. Those of you in upstate NY will know it, it’s “huge”.) Although after my son was born and got to be about a year old, I took a bunch of them and put them on a key ring so he had his own “keys” :P

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:16

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Pillarless Olds four-door, very nice. Would be nicer if less bedraggled, but I realize I’m asking a lot for a non-Chevy tri-five to get love too, particularly in other than two-door.

SteveLehto > move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop 03/10/2016 at 09:17

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Because they can’t make up their minds! Which is it? Do you want to live on land or in water?!

SteveLehto > marshknute 03/10/2016 at 09:17

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So now, no one has to go look it up.

I see what you did there.

SteveLehto > ThatbastardKurtis 03/10/2016 at 09:18

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Should I sneak back and pop the hood?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > jimz 03/10/2016 at 09:21

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Crazier than that, I saw someone who was an ex-son-in-law actually selected for a jury. They hadn’t seen each other in years (XSIL and the defendant), and the defending counsel had used up all his dismiss-without-cause freebies, so the prosecutor was using it to tweak the defense. The judge actually didn’t grant a dismissal “with cause” on that one - kind of screwy. “I know you knew this guy years ago - can you be impartial?” Guy said yes. *shrug*

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:26

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Should I sneak back and pop the hood abscond with it ?

Fixed. Don’t let something as trivial as what’s under the hood interfere with your larger plans.

move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:32

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Leave it to our favorite lawyer to use a $10 word where a fifty cent word would have done just fine. I'm working with a public school education here, and I don't have time to google every other word I read. "Culprit"? Why not just "bad guy"? "Essentially undrivable"? Why not "it was broke"? Come on college boy, talk vulgar to me!

jimz > marshknute 03/10/2016 at 09:33

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Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 03/10/2016 at 09:33

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While the defense attorney couldn’t have been happy - would that be grounds for appeal?

SteveLehto > move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop 03/10/2016 at 09:36

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There are two schools of thought on that. The other side is that if you throw in a word or two like those, it keeps the listeners entertained (on some level), moreso than if it is all 4th-grade level (like TV news). Written words - not so much. But you’ll see that I often shift gears back and forth - using the $10 word and the elementary stuff in the same sentence. (Listen carefully in the podcast and you can hear me crack myself up a little when I use one or the other to an extreme.)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling 03/10/2016 at 09:41

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The prosecutor was probably counting on no appeals, because it was a trial that had gone to jury more because of defendant cussedness than big claims involved, per se... so he was probably expecting to end up with some compromise short of the full charge anyway. Something pretty stupid, attempts to charge a DWI via some not horribly conclusive circumstantial evidence, which the defendant (perhaps logically) figured he could beat and went to jury on. To be clear, I didn’t get selected for the jury, but I don’t think there was actually that much to the evidence given what was described.

Think! aka anotherburner111122223333 > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:41

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Did I miss it, or did you not explain how the wheelless dropped truck story finally came to light?

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling 03/10/2016 at 09:46

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That last one with the chromed wheels, though - was there no way to have a settlement like, the manufacturer will provide a new set of non-chromed wheels (and tires) and cover a thorough inspection to make sure the unbalanced-ness didn’t mess anything else up?

Xedicon > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:47

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Rhetorical question right? :)

bob and john > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:49

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I have to admit, I was expecting you to sound...different.

those stories are....interesting. The only possible way (that I can think of) for the chrome to be THAT out of balance is that its not applied evenly

or, if it dipped in a vat of liquid, its not dipped in right (think vertical VS horizontal) and that as you pull it out, some of the plating will still pool on the inside of a spoke or something.

strange. I enjoyed the podcast a lot though, keep it up!

SteveLehto > Think! aka anotherburner111122223333 03/10/2016 at 09:53

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You mean, how did we find out? The attorney for Chrysler told me - after they had bought it back.

PJ > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:53

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Sometime in the mid-80's I purchased a new Toyota Celica GTS from a dealer in Maryland. Drove off the lot with a big smile. Next day at work I get a phone call (sales manager or something) telling me that the contract I signed was wrong and they needed another $1000. “The guy who sold you the car is new. You wouldn’t want him to get into trouble, would you.” Grudgingly I went in on my way home from work and wrote a check for another $1000. Hindsight is always 20/20. I should have reminded the person calling that they signed the contract as well and since it’s their contract they are just as responsible for the terms of said legal instrument as I was. If they wanted to do anything like repo the car to go ahead and try and I’ll see them in court. They also signed the contract, their contract, so they were just as responsible as I was. Couple of years later I found out the dealership was being investigated by the (MD) states attorney office for just this type of scam.

SteveLehto > Xedicon 03/10/2016 at 09:54

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If it was a Chrysler from the right era and had the CHANCE of having a Hemi under its hood, I would have done it already.

move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 09:54

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I received a critique on a military tactics class I was teaching once that said I used too many big words. A military class for office candidates, so everyone ostensibly has at least a bachelor’s degree. The student put their name on the critique sheet, so I tracked him down and asked some more specific questions, what words, was there not enough context to decipher, etc. I don't remember all of his examples, but the one that really stood out to me was "envelopment", which is a doctrinal term defined in the actual class, and on the test.

SteveLehto > bob and john 03/10/2016 at 09:56

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Wait - you’ve never heard my voice before? What do you imagine when you are reading my pieces? The voice of James Earl Jones? Gilbert Gottfried?

SteveLehto > PJ 03/10/2016 at 09:57

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Yes, it’s called a “spot delivery” and it is a scam. I have done a podcast and also a piece on these.

bob and john > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 10:05

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mmm, more texan. something like rosco or boss hogg.

O[][][][][][][]O™ > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 10:07

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Perhaps I missed it, but what car did your client end up winning, if you don’t mind me asking?

EricG > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 10:09

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Ahh Mr.Lehto. It's always a nice to scroll through Jalopnik and find one of your videos.

SteveLehto > bob and john 03/10/2016 at 10:12

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I’m from Michigan. I half-expect people to think I will sound like I’m in “Fargo.” (Which, although set in a different state, has an accent that many people attribute to the backwaters of Michigan as well).

SteveLehto > EricG 03/10/2016 at 10:14

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Thank you. They tend to go up on Thursdays (unless it is an off topic one, like when I got to ride in Richard Petty’s Superbird).

SteveLehto > O[][][][][][][]O™ 03/10/2016 at 10:17

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I believe it was a Dodge Neon. This was a few years ago and - as you might expect - they weren’t giving away the most expensive car on the lot.

Gavenger > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 10:29

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I saw this all the time in CA during my brief stint as a salesperson. Sales Tower would decide to roll a car to a family which had questionable credit. The auto-approval website would say "Maybe, if you can provide 3 years of pay slips, 40 references, last 5 years of tax returns and 3 quarts of blood." During the contract signing, there is a small blurb that you sign (its glossed over as one of the 13 inane signature spots on the 10 foot long contract) that states you understand the "loan is not finalized with any bank, and that if they need to find a different bank, the terms of the loan may change and you agree to come back and sign a new contract." Guess who has to make THAT phone call, it sucks.

SteveLehto > Gavenger 03/10/2016 at 10:31

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The laws on this vary wildly from state to state but the way I’ve seen them go down in MICH is almost always illegal. State laws and Federal laws and so on. I stopped handling these cases but I know attorneys who make a living doing nothing but these.

Xedicon > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 10:43

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That 300+ hp in the mid 50s had to be so bonkers back then! I’ve always dreamed of having a 55 Chrysler 300 with the Hemi - would be so sweet!

Maciek Z > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 10:45

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Great stuff, Steve. Thanks for the great content.

I have to ask, is there a Steve Lehto somewhere in Illinois? I’m curious if the consumer protection/auto laws are similar in Illinois.

Thanks!

SteveLehto > Maciek Z 03/10/2016 at 10:46

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Thanks for the note. Every state is different on the laws. I don’t know any attorneys who do this stuff in ILL but I am sure there are a few.

ateamfan42 > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 10:48

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Steve, these are great stories. Please keep them coming!

SteveLehto > ateamfan42 03/10/2016 at 10:49

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Thanks!

SteveLehto > jimz 03/10/2016 at 10:52

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My brother was called for jury duty in Oakland County and the judge asked the pool if anyone knew any of the attorneys. One attorney was a well-known defense attorney. A guy raised his hand and said, “Yes. That defense attorney is the one who always defends the really guilty people.”

After the uproar, the judge excused that juror and told the rest of the pool to disregard the comment.

Of course, the potential juror was right. He just didn’t understand that the judge meant, “know personally.”

handyr > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 11:10

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Can anyone out there explain how less than a gram of chrome plating makes a wheel unbalanceable?

jimz > move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop 03/10/2016 at 12:00

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this book is for you:

https://xkcd.com/thing-explaine…

jimz > handyr 03/10/2016 at 12:04

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I was thinking that too; the only thing I can think of which makes sense is that they didn’t have the OE wheels chromed, but put on aftermarket wheels which looked like the OE wheels but chromed. and they weren’t “Direct fit” wheels, so they would have needed a centering ring on the hub to make sure the wheels were true to center. if you don’t have the wheel centered there’s no amount of weight you could put on them to get rid of the vibration.

SteveLehto > handyr 03/10/2016 at 12:06

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You can chrome plate 4 wheels with less than a gram of material?

nighttimeistherighttime > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 03/10/2016 at 12:27

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he was probably expecting to end up with some compromise short of the full charge anyway. Something pretty stupid, attempts to charge a DWI via some not horribly conclusive circumstantial evidence, which the defendant (perhaps logically) figured he could beat and went to jury on.

I’ve only sat on one jury in my life, and you basically described it 100% correctly. Guy got charged with a DUI because his car was in his yard during a party with the stereo on. No evidence that he drove drunk, but they charged him with driving on the sidewalk so we convicted on that.

handyr > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 12:42

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Chrome plate is incredibly thin. About .001" of nickel is laid down first, then about .0005" of chrome.

I’m just guessing on the weight, but it can’t be far off.

sgtyukon > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 12:44

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Not for overpaying the fine and not for keeping the file open, but I’m told in the early days of computers used for billing 1940's or 50's), if you overpaid a bill you would sometimes get a delinquency notice. Why? Lazy programmers assuming nobody overpaid. So, the program would ask if the check equal to the electric bill? If yes, credit it and if no, calcualte the difference and send a bill for the difference.

SteveLehto > handyr 03/10/2016 at 12:49

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You’re assuming it was done right. Even so, I found stuff on the web that said it could be much heavier, depending on how badly it was done.

Be that as it may, this is just what was told to me by the defense attorney.

DeathtoMooseandSquirrel > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 14:08

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By the way, when buying a new car, skip the consent to arbitration part. I’ve done it on my last two purchases. Most recently, the documents guy balked a little, but then went out to ask someone, and came back and said that it was ok. They didn’t put that stuff about jury trials in the constitution for nothing!

Whitesmoke > sgtyukon 03/10/2016 at 14:10

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As a former programmer, there’s no excuse for that kind of coding.

SteveLehto > DeathtoMooseandSquirrel 03/10/2016 at 14:12

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Depends on the dealer and who drafted the clause. If you want a discount from Chrysler, you have to sign. Otherwise, no discount for you.

DeathtoMooseandSquirrel > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 14:30

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Interesting. I’ve done it with Toyota, and lately, VW. I got a bunch of incentives and a really good price. I’m beginning to take the inference that Chrysler is to be avoided.

sgtyukon > Whitesmoke 03/10/2016 at 14:31

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No, there isn’t, but I’m talking about the dawn of using computers in business. Maybe whoever wrote the code didn’t think people would ever overpay. We all know better than that now.

ThatbastardKurtis > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 14:32

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Lol. Funny you should ask. I have a relative that has one just like in the pic, with the 3 duece engine, and it is rusting into the ground. And I am not allowed to pop the hood, as I was told, “you can look at the engine only if I say so...”***

***yeah, because a rusted out engine is so valuable.

thesalad > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 14:40

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I knew someone who worked for a dealer, the salesman was told to drive the 2wd truck in the snow about 60 miles, he relented, the dealership management told them don’t be a lady, get the truck there. Ends up sliding the bed into a guardrail and causing damage. Dealer calls the guy “weather is too bad to drive your truck for delivery, we’ll schedule a new day”

They repaired the damage at the body shop and delivered the truck a few days later never mentioning anything.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop 03/10/2016 at 16:15

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It is sort of a concern that the meaning of “envelopment” wasn’t immediately obvious to that student. It did remind me of this quote, though:

duckstu > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 16:45

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Regarding the chrome wheels and balancing;

Obviously it’s not possible (even in theory) for chrome to make a “wheel” so that it can’t stay in balance. Chrome is an electroplating process and the copper, nickel and chrome are all applied evenly. Even if it were applied in a lopsided manner,.. weights would correct it.

What COULD happen however is that the chrome shop plated ALL of the wheel,.. including the inside of the wheel’s lip,... (where the tire bead sits on the rim). The chrome would make the wheel more slick,.. and provide less friction for the tire. It would then be much easier for the tire to rotate on the rim. Tires and wheels both have heavy spots,.. and presuming they stay in the same relative position,.. the wheel weights correct both the tire and the wheel’s imbalance. So if they move relative to each-other,.. the weight will be wrong.

I bet if you were to put a paint mark on the tire, adjacent to the valve stem,.. then drive the car and jump on the brakes,... you’ll find that the paint mark has moved.

jimz > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 20:22

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Yoopers.

jimz > SteveLehto 03/10/2016 at 20:46

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how in the name of hell are the Wings losing to Winnipeg?

BabyJesusDC1 > SteveLehto 03/11/2016 at 11:00

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On the one with the chromed wheels, why didnt they just replace the wheels with unaltered factory wheels? Seems silly to refund a whole car for a couple thousand in wheels which would have fixed it.

SteveLehto > BabyJesusDC1 03/11/2016 at 17:24

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Dealer apparently misled the manufacturer and didn’t tell them they knew what was going on. The MFR ignored the last chance letter and, as a result, ended up buying it back. Which pissed them off and I’m sure the dealer ended up contributing to the settlement.

ronmler3 > SteveLehto 03/11/2016 at 21:07

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What is all this about polygraphs? I thought they weren’t admissable as evidence...?

ronmler3 > SteveLehto 03/11/2016 at 21:08

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Concur.

AssFault > SteveLehto 03/11/2016 at 21:14

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Do you remember if there were any post judgment shenanigans? I would guess he had to pay tax and license fees, but I could also iimagin a dealer like this trying to slip in all sorts of BS prep and document fees, in attempt to reduce their loss.

BabyJesusDC1 > SteveLehto 03/11/2016 at 21:33

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I see, thanks for the response.

SteveLehto > ronmler3 03/11/2016 at 22:31

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They’re not admissible into evidence. But the parties can agree to use them outside of court.

SteveLehto > AssFault 03/11/2016 at 22:32

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No, he opted for the cash equivalent and simply got a check.

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto 03/16/2016 at 14:25

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I recently bought an Audi (there’s a longer story involving a VW TDi, but that’s neither here nor there). Final paperwork interaction went something like this:

Dealer: “And please sign this paperwork saying you’ll only go through arbitration.”
Me: “Nah.”
Dealer: “We cannot sell you the car for the price we quoted you if you don’t sign.”
Me: (completely calm) “I understand.”
Dealer: “New price is X.” (I honestly don’t recall how much X was, only that it was more).
Me: (still calm): “No thank you. I completely understand where you’re coming from, so let’s cancel the whole thing and I’ll just be on my way with my VW.”
Dealer: “....Hold on, let me make some calls.”

And just like that, I managed to get a new Audi for the price I wanted without having to sign an arbitration clause.

P3ngu1n > SteveLehto 03/16/2016 at 14:33

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It’s not directly relevant to this story but it does have to do with shady dealings when purchasing a car. This story is still developing now:

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/11…

Does this guy have any legal recourse? He seems to have all the relevant information he needs to take the seller to court.

SteveLehto > Wil Haginen 03/16/2016 at 15:56

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Whose clause was it? I know that you cannot do that with the Chrysler “friends and family” discount.

SteveLehto > P3ngu1n 03/16/2016 at 15:59

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Slam dunk. The “AS IS” has nothing to do with explicit objective promises made by the seller (which were made in the ad). The only problem is the cost of pursuing this.

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto 03/16/2016 at 16:07

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I wish I could recall. I want to say it was from Audi, but more than likely, it was the local dealership’s clause. “Local”, it’s probably one of Houston’s largest (if not only) chain of VW / Audi / Porsche dealers.

BruceS85 > PJ 03/17/2016 at 13:03

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I had a dealership try to pull this on me, and when they called, I said, “Nice try,” and hung up. That was the end of that.

PJ > BruceS85 03/18/2016 at 08:15

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I salute you. Wish I had but, like I said, hindsight is 20/20.